Invasion of privacy at Airports now?

[BradG]

How do you feel about police now being able to ask you for your identification without reasonably suspecting you of committing or that you are about to commit a crime at an airport? I think this is yet another invasion of our civil rights by our corrupt police force. Police seem to be chipping away at our rights little by little. They do this in the name of "safety", but in reality I think it's just a grab for power.

Honestly, do you think that a terrorist is going to hand over his ID that says "I am a terrorist" on it? If he is a know terrorist, isn't he going to be smart enough to have a fake ID and passport? This does nothing but appease the stupid public and erode the rights of good people.

As I always say; a society that gives up it's freedom for temporary security, deserves neither and will lose both.

[tor lives]

Quiet frankly Brad.....as a former Airport Manager, I applaud this move. If you had to put up with the dickhead factor on a daily basis, as Airport staff do, you would probably see it differently.
TOR

[BradG]

Quiet frankly Brad.....as a former Airport Manager, I applaud this move. If you had to put up with the dickhead factor on a daily basis, as Airport staff do, you would probably see it differently.
TOR

I understand that people at airports can be kinda testy, often they are tired, hungry, impatient etc, but being a dickhead isn't a crime. I know I'm evoking a slippery slope argument here but it's been going in the last few years already so it's not without precedent; where does the erosion of civil liberties in the name of 'safety' and 'terrorism', stop? Already Victorian police can designate any area in public a special region where they can stop and search you without warrant or suspicion, will that extend to airports, where police can approach you, ask you to open your bags in the middle of the place, or pat you down, even if you're not actually getting on a flight that day?

It's questionable if these new laws and powers given to authority really do anything to protect us. I am genuinely alarmed at the ease with which our politicians and police seem to nonchalantly strip away people's rights. Indeed most of these new powers weren't even used when foiling other terrorist threats, indicating that they are of little to no use.

[tor lives]

Quiet frankly Brad.....as a former Airport Manager, I applaud this move. If you had to put up with the dickhead factor on a daily basis, as Airport staff do, you would probably see it differently.
TOR

but being a dickhead isn't a crime. .

In the aviation space, it actually is mate, depending on how it translates. I have had several morons charged under Sect 21 of the Aviation Crimes Act....and I am pleased to say that some have received jail time.
I absolutely understand and respect your point of view Brad, but air travel is not a democracy mate, and nor should it be.
Walk a mile in the shoes of Airport/Airline personnel for a week and you will see what I mean.
TOR

[BradG]

Quiet frankly Brad.....as a former Airport Manager, I applaud this move. If you had to put up with the dickhead factor on a daily basis, as Airport staff do, you would probably see it differently.
TOR

but being a dickhead isn't a crime. .

In the aviation space, it actually is mate, depending on how it translates. I have had several morons charged under Sect 21 of the Aviation Crimes Act....and I am pleased to say that some have received jail time.
I absolutely understand and respect your point of view Brad, but air travel is not a democracy mate, and nor should it be.
Walk a mile in the shoes of Airport/Airline personnel for a week and you will see what I mean.
TOR

I would say if you're committing a criminal offense you are being more than just merely a dickhead. We're talking about people's rights, not democracy. If you read about how security goes about their job at Ben Gurion Airport, their security is less invasive than American airports especially. It takes into consideration civil liberties of the person and mixes them with some of the best security in the world, so it can be done without totalitarian overtones. Bringing it back to the original point, police already have the power to deal with cases you mention; namely, arresting someone, at that point you have to identify yourself. But you need to have actually committed a crime for that, or at very least be suspected of about to commit a crime.

I don't feel it proper for people to have to identify themselves to authority while merely going about their lawful business. I also question what this law will actually accomplish. If I am asked to identify myself at the airport, how will that help determine if I am a terrorist threat or not? This question has not been clearly answered by police and I suspect that is because they have no clear answer themselves.

Also, consider this question; what does a terrorist look like? This opens up another can of worms in terms of racial profiling. Will you stop everyone in traditional Islamic dress, or every Northern Irishman?

[Adam the Akrodude]

Brad I think your extrapolating what is going on at airports somewhat. Police/security personnel are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Generally, they're just trying to maintain law & order as without them, there would indeed be chaos. What about the rights of passengers, friends and family thereof that expect civil behaviour at our airports? I honestly don't think the Police get their rocks off demanding to see people's ID. Sure, there are instances where some police may over step the mark on rare occasions - basic human nature, no one and no system is perfect. Do you recall that bikie shoot out at Sydney Airport some time ago? My brother was at Tulla years ago during a armed holdup with at least one of the perp's shot and killed. Bad shit happens and I'm thankful of those that are there to stand the line to protect civvies like myself. If it means being pulled aside to have my ID checked, I'm no problem as I've nothing to hide. It's the same as I've no problem with the explosives test at airports and on international flights being x-rayed. I much rather these "invasions of privacy" than being blown to bits at FL3500 or same happening to any family and friends. We live in a complex age where some of our freedoms have been compromised due to those effing arsehole terrorists and evil perp's wanting to do harm on innocent law abiding citizens. It's a cost we all must bear due to the age we live in. I travel a far bit for work and I'm very happy for whatever security measures are taken at our airports, which I might add are some of the best in the world. Try travelling through USA, in Asia, Middle East, etc! I once spent 4 hours going through security at Dhahran in Saudi from 2:00AM to 6:00AM years ago - and the pricks confiscated a Neil Young CD I had as it was apparently "forbidden" in the Kingdom. A mate later took me to see the blown up Khobar Tower apartment block where many US Air Force personnel had been killed recently - looked like a dolls house with the front opened. The Religious Police arrived within 5 minutes of us parking there in a Humvee c/e M-60 on top. It was not because we parked there, it was because my mate's wife was left by herself in their car alone whilst we walked to look at the building and she got the "Why are you here? Where is your husband?" shit from them. They buggered off as we ran back to their car. So, wanna talk about freedoms - we've a great deal more than others in some parts of the world!

[BradG]

Adam, you are ignoring the important questions I am asking;

1 - How will this law help prevent terrorism?
2 - What does a terrorist look like?

In the examples you mention, laws already exist to deal with those. As I said, despite more than a few laws being passed that are subtly eroding civil liberties in Australia, virtually none of those new powers were invoked when foiling other terrorist plots, so why do those laws exist and why must law enforcement have more? The law also provides for police to be able to ask identification from someone acting suspiciously, that would fall under the 'reasonably suspect person of about to commit a crime' clause.

Under this law, someone could be asked for identification without suspicion of them doing anything wrong. They could be sitting having a coffee minding their own business and it's "papers please". Sorry, but that is a step too far. How far do you want to go Adam, in the name of safety? Would you think it fine for everyone who flies, including children to have to submit to a strip search? How about a cavity search? Oh no?....but it's for safety, look children have been used in other suicide attacks, we need to sacrifice some freedoms and privacy for 100% safety....... You see there is a tipping point when those keeping us "safe" actually become our oppressors.

Any society that sacrifices it's freedom for temporary security, deserves neither and will lose both.

[SpaceRanger]

Civil liberties notwithstanding (and I am an ACLU member), why should anyone in a public place expect any right to privacy?

[BradG]

Civil liberties notwithstanding (and I am an ACLU member), why should anyone in a public place expect any right to privacy?

Well in your case, because not recognising this would breach the fourth amendment to the constitution. It shouldn't take an Australian to point that out to a Texan! This is a very important right, otherwise authority could stop and search anyone, at any time, for anything without any reason. Do you really want to live in that kind of world?

[Adam the Akrodude]

Adam, you are ignoring the important questions I am asking;

1 - How will this law help prevent terrorism?
2 - What does a terrorist look like?

In the examples you mention, laws already exist to deal with those. As I said, despite more than a few laws being passed that are subtly eroding civil liberties in Australia, virtually none of those new powers were invoked when foiling other terrorist plots, so why do those laws exist and why must law enforcement have more? The law also provides for police to be able to ask identification from someone acting suspiciously, that would fall under the 'reasonably suspect person of about to commit a crime' clause.

Under this law, someone could be asked for identification without suspicion of them doing anything wrong. They could be sitting having a coffee minding their own business and it's "papers please". Sorry, but that is a step too far. How far do you want to go Adam, in the name of safety? Would you think it fine for everyone who flies, including children to have to submit to a strip search? How about a cavity search? Oh no?....but it's for safety, look children have been used in other suicide attacks, we need to sacrifice some freedoms and privacy for 100% safety....... You see there is a tipping point when those keeping us "safe" actually become our oppressors.

Any society that sacrifices it's freedom for temporary security, deserves neither and will lose both.

Brad, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. This is a move to help prevent acts of violence at airports. We have people on this page that either have or actually do work in this environment and know full well what has in the past, does every day and will continue in to the future happen at airports - much of which never gets into the news. I for one are sick to the back of my eyeballs there being more rights to the bloody perpetrators than those of victims themselves. If you're worried or threatened by your rights being eroded by going to a major airport, then don't go. I and my family travel a fair bit both domestically and internationally and I'm all for higher security at airports. If it means saving one life, it's worth it. This isn't just about potential acts of terrorism as I tried to explain either.
This shit gets real sometimes.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-18/alleged-sydney-bomb-leader-and-is-fighter-arrested-in-iraq/9668012