Mig 29 threat: Operation Falconer

[tor lives]

Hi guys,
Can anyone confirm if the Iraqi Air Force was still fielding Mig 29s during the time RAAF Hornets were involved in Operation Falconer. If not, what were the Iraqis using for their air defence at this time???
TOR

[hrtpaul]

Rocks????

[tor lives]

Rocks????

Yeah, that helps mate....thanks for your input
Speaking of Iraqi Mig 29s....it appears that they had some limited success during Gulf War 1 hitting an F-111 and at least one B-52, (although both the pig and Buff apparently made it home....even if a little worse for wear). Well there ya go.....I didn't know this until now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engage ... e_Gulf_War
TOR

[hrtpaul]

Hmmmm don't mess with an F-15 it seems

[_BlackHawk_]

Rocks????

Yeah, that helps mate....thanks for your input
Speaking of Iraqi Mig 29s....it appears that they had some limited success during Gulf War 1 hitting an F-111 and at least one B-52, (although both the pig and Buff apparently made it home....even if a little worse for wear). Well there ya go.....I didn't know this until now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engage ... e_Gulf_War
TOR

There were several other close calls and missiles fired. At least 1 other interception of an F-111 resulted in a missile launch and there were close calls with RAF Tornado's and an F-15. Iraqi pilots interviewed after the war said they didn't believe they managed to shoot down any coalition aircraft, but further research seems to indicate that the F/A-18 was shot down on the opening night by a MiG 25PD Foxbat. There is another possible but it seems likely it was hit by ground fire.

In 2003, the Iraqi air force mounted no combat sorties. The MiG 29 survivors of 1991 were retired years before but the ones that defected to Iran are probably still in service there. Iran refused to return them.

[tor lives]

Rocks????

Yeah, that helps mate....thanks for your input
Speaking of Iraqi Mig 29s....it appears that they had some limited success during Gulf War 1 hitting an F-111 and at least one B-52, (although both the pig and Buff apparently made it home....even if a little worse for wear). Well there ya go.....I didn't know this until now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engage ... e_Gulf_War
TOR

There were several other close calls and missiles fired. At least 1 other interception of an F-111 resulted in a missile launch and there were close calls with RAF Tornado's and an F-15. Iraqi pilots interviewed after the war said they didn't believe they managed to shoot down any coalition aircraft, but further research seems to indicate that the F/A-18 was shot down on the opening night by a MiG 25PD Foxbat. There is another possible but it seems likely it was hit by ground fire.

In 2003, the Iraqi air force mounted no combat sorties. The MiG 29 survivors of 1991 were retired years before but the ones that defected to Iran are probably still in service there. Iran refused to return them.

So what did the Iraqis still have in their inventory in 2003, even though they did not engage in any combat??.....we're the MIG 21s and MIG 23s still "on the books".
TOR

[_BlackHawk_]

So what did the Iraqis still have in their inventory in 2003, even though they did not engage in any combat??.....we're the MIG 21s and MIG 23s still "on the books".
TOR

MiG 21, 23, 25, Su 22, 25 and assorted rotary wing aircraft. There may have been a smattering of other aircraft around that were destroyed on the ground or just left to rot. After 2 or 3 purges in the 90's, at least two major restructurings along with the neglect of the air force by the Hussein regime that left them without spares for aircraft that were unserviceable, a pilot training regime that was 80% political indoctrination and an attempted coup by senior air force members in October 2002, it was never going to be able to offer any defence. Hussein buried some remaining aircraft in order to try and hide them and not leave them in the hands of Iran, like the last lot.

[Adam the Akrodude]

Iraqi Air Force - what stayed - below. Make for fantastic dioramas! I do wonder the fate of those Iraqi pilots who flew to Iran.

Interesting topic Ray. Did prompt me to look around for these photos - pretty interesting stuff.

















Wonder if this is on the MiG-25 sales brochure - "Can be buried in the event of Western forces overpowering your country"?

[_BlackHawk_]

Iraqi Air Force - what stayed - below. Make for fantastic dioramas! I do wonder the fate of those Iraqi pilots who flew to Iran.

Interesting topic Ray. Did prompt me to look around for these photos - pretty interesting stuff.



Wonder if this is on the MiG-25 sales brochure - "Can be buried in the event of Western forces overpowering your country"?

Now that aircraft graveyard is a very interesting picture. Apart from the MiG21 remains and a MiG 17, that's a Chinese H-5 (IL-28 Beagle) in the middle. That would have had to have been sitting there for 20 years or more by the time that picture was taken.

As for the MiG25, I doubt you'd ever be able to fly that aircraft again without stripping it down piece by piece. Just think where the sand gets when you're on the beach, now bury an aircraft in the stuff!

[Adam the Akrodude]

I think what these pic's show are acts of complete desperation by a deluded dictator who vastly underestimated the resolve of the "Coalition of the Willing". I don't think Saddam actually expected a full on invasion, yet still took these desperate measures, hoping at least being able to assemble some kind of rag tag air force once it was all over. In a way, he had no choice but to bury them hoping to get at least something back, versus having them completely destroyed either in the air or on the ground during GW2. Saddam got none of his air force back that went to Iran during GW1, so I guess burying them is the next best thing huh!

Having worked in places like quarries and glass plants over the years, dry dust and dry sand can really get into well sealed enclosures. Dry sand flows like water. Still, nothing is impossible. If you know the basic empty weight of the aeroplane beforehand, stripping the aeroplane down and giving it a good vacuum until you reach that BEW would get you pretty close I'd think. The main concern I think would be structural overload - putting a lot of dirt on top of the aeroplane - what overload and damage did that do? The MiG-25 is a pretty tough aeroplane made mainly of nickel steel, so if any aeroplane can be buried and brought back to life, this would be it I think. Electronics are pretty basic being largely old valve technology. Who knows - bury five and hope to get one or two going? Desperate and crazy stuff indeed!

Not a bad explanation of what went where and why - if this Wiki source is to be believed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Air_Force